TDN Roundtable: F-T Turf Showcase Sale

Two weeks ago, Fasig-Tipton announced plans for the Turf Showcase, a select sale consisting of yearlings suited for grass, to be held Sept. 10 at the company's Newtown Paddocks in Lexington, Kentucky. This niche offering will attempt to meet the increasingly popular demand for turf prospects in the U.S. while also trying to capitalize on the recent success of American-bred turf horses racing abroad, which might attract international buyers.

Over the last several days, TDN spoke with four potential purchasers to get a sense of how they think the Turf Showcase will fit into the yearling marketplace. Bloodstock agents Pete Bradley and Steve Young, plus trainers H. Graham Motion and Wesley Ward, were each interviewed separately, and their edited transcripts are　presented below in a roundtable discussion format.

TDN: Please share your initial thoughts on the new concept of a select, turf-centric yearling sale.

Motion: My initial reaction is surprise that it hasn't been done before. I think it's a great idea. We're leaning more and more towards grass racing in this country. I don't know what the statistics are, but at certain tracks, I'm guessing that today there are almost as many grass races as there are dirt races. I think it makes a lot of sense with the way racing is going these days.

Bradley: For some reason I have a penchant for buying turf horses, although a number of them have been “made” horses. For the amount of turf racing that's out there, and the number of sires that fit that bracket–and I think we're getting more all the time, the likes of Flintshire (GB) (Dansili {GB}) and Noble Mission (GB) (Galileo {Ire}); top-quality horses like Kitten's Joy (El Prado {Ire})–there's a real niche there for top-end stallions. Even in the medium (price) range, the likes of Mizzen Mast (Cozzene) and such–I think having a select turf sale is a niche that could work well for the buyers.

Ward: They're very innovative. [Fasig-Tipton] previously came up with the New Sire Showcase to promote horses by freshman sires and a select horses-of-racing-age sale to accompany their July yearling auction. One of these concepts is going to click, hopefully this one. They're great people to work with, and I'm glad to see them trying new ideas. The competition is good for the overall market, and for them to come up with these different types of ideas is fantastic.

Young: I respect the people that are trying to do it, and I'm confident that if they're going to try to assemble the best 100 or 150 horses they can find, it has a good chance of working.

TDN: Do you have yearling-buying clients who specifically seek out turf prospects?

Motion: I certainly think there are some clients geared more towards turf than others. So this becomes a chance to showcase turf horses rather than going to look for one that might fit through the cracks at the major sales. But I do think in general there's more of a positive attitude towards turf racing, where people are really looking for the best prospects. Even in stakes programs, there's so much more grass racing than there used to be.

Bradley: I don't really have a client base that looks for yearlings that are turf horses. I have people who enjoy turf racing, but basically they're looking for horses in a price range that are useful horses that they hope can be good racehorses. But on the other hand, we've been lucky enough to get a few nice turf horses as yearlings for pinhooks–the likes of Lady Eli (Divine Park) come to mind. I'm always looking for a good horse. I think all of us are looking for horses that are good athletes and can win races. The surface doesn't matter. The pedigree will dictate whether it's a turf horse. And with the amount of turf racing that there is right now, it's certainly not a detriment to have a horse that has a turf pedigree.

TDN: Timing-wise, how will the Turf Showcase be affected by its placement?

Bradley: It's the time of year when people are here to buy yearlings, so you'd think it would be a benefit for Fasig-Tipton to [capitalize on] a buyer base coming to town. The timing, I would have to think, is a plus. Obviously with the Keeneland sale in the mix too, you're going to have buyers from Japan, buyers from England, and buyers from both the East and West coasts of the United States where there is quite a bit of turf racing. So I think it's a time when a lot of those people come to town, making it a good fit with the overall yearling market in the fall.

Young: I think the one thing that is advantageous to the sellers is that if you talk about a European [buying] influence, I think a lot of [foreign clients] who are apt to buy real cream-of-the-crop grass horses are more likely to have their representatives in town than [they are likely] to be around later for books three, four and five. In that respect, I think it is probably a bonus for the sellers. The most precious commodity is time, so I think Fasig-Tipton put the sale in the best spot they could put it. Most everyone that's serious is going to be there for Keeneland anyway. Would it bring someone that wouldn't normally be there for Keeneland sales? I don't think so.

Motion: It's a time when people are in that [acquisition] mode. I mean, Keeneland September is probably the major sale that I would go to, and I'm not a particularly big yearling purchaser. But this would make it something that would very much fit into my schedule, and I think it would probably work well for others.

Ward: I think it's a perfect time to have it. And if a buyer doesn't like what he sees, he can always wait the extra day for Keeneland to start and have his pick from the 4,000 other horses.

TDN: How do you think it will affect pricing if a select category of turf-oriented yearlings are grouped together into a single Fasig-Tipton sale as opposed to being part of a larger marketplace?

Bradley: That's hard to say because I can't figure out pricing on anything in the horse business right now [laughs]. I'm scratching my head, to be quite honest. But it's a test that's going to have to be made to find that out. Again, in this market, [buying yearlings] is so physical-driven that [horses with] good physicals sell at any point through the sale, and [in this select turf yearling sale] it's going to be as critical to have a good physical as it is to have a good turf pedigree. I just think that there's not a [sale] that physical does not drive the market, and then pedigree says what you have to pay for that physical.

Young: I think the individuals will dictate the pricing. The horse has got to stand on his own merit, really. I think if he was a crackerjack in a later catalog, he's still going to bring plenty of money.

Ward: I think it might be a little bit more expensive, but it might be worth paying a little bit of a premium to have a short, select list that is already condensed to what we're looking for.

Motion: I don't think it would adversely affect prices. I don't know why one [sale] would affect the other. You've got an opportunity to make it a good draw for international clients. Most Europeans and international clients come for the September sale, so I think it's clever niche with very good timing.

TDN: In North America, turf racing draws higher average field sizes than dirt. What's driving this trend?

Motion: That's a good question. I think the trend has definitely changed the mindsets of racing offices, because they can fill turf races much easier. Most horses can handle running on the grass, whereas not all horses handle running on the dirt. It's a kinder surface. The longevity of the horses, I think that makes a difference. At the end of the day, the horses that run on turf tend to be around longer, especially at the top level, than horses that run on the dirt.

Bradley: Turf racing is easier on horses than dirt racing is. And secondly, I think there are a number of trainers, especially on the East Coast and the West Coast where you have good turf racing, it's easier for those trainers to figure out if a horse is going to be acceptably good on the turf versus the dirt. The dirt is so much more strenuous on them that I think you have a better chance of acknowledging if a horse is an acceptable turf horse [as opposed to] whether they can take the grind of racing on dirt. This is a very broad generalization, but I think trainers used to say, 'Let me try this horse on the dirt two or three times, and if it doesn't work then we'll put him on turf.” Whereas it's the opposite now: We've got more opportunities to run on the turf, and if a horse looks like a turf horse, we try him there first. I think that way you get bigger fields than you would have in the past.

Young: Turf horses don't train as hard, and their soundness carries them farther than horses that run on the dirt.

Ward: They do stay sounder. You're able to keep your grass horses going longer, and that's the reason why you have bigger fields, because they stay sound and can be brought back to race.

TDN: Given the recent success American-bred and even American-trained horses have enjoyed on grass in Europe, do you think that a select turf yearling sale will resonate with European buyers who might now be seeking American-pedigreed horses suited to the turf?

Ward: The American horses over recent years have been very successful in the bigger turf races in Europe. With Mark [Casse], Graham [Motion], and I going over there to show that American-trained horses can also be successful, I think that really bodes well for the American-bred horse. Now the European buyers can come in to a situation like this and have a little bit more confidence in buying.

Motion: Over the last few years, American-bred horses, regardless of whether they're American-trained, have been particularly strong at meets like Royal Ascot. So I think we have kind of proven our mettle as breeders in this country; that we can be competitive on the international level. And I think there's going to be more and more of that. The last few years, with the turf horses that we've had, I think a horse like Wise Dan (Wiseman's Ferry) could have competed anywhere, had they chosen to go international with him. I think that the present fillies and mares, Lady Eli and Tepin (Bernstein), plus Miss Temple City (Temple City), have all gone over and proven to be pretty competitive. Right now we have as strong a group of fillies and mares as we've ever had, so I think we are proving ourselves as strong turf breeders in this country.

TDN: In the longer term, if the Turf Showcase concept works well, do you think it might have an influence on the profile of turf pedigrees in the overall U.S. bloodstock marketplace?

Motion: I think it's possible. People are much more accepting of turf stallions right now. I think Ken Ramsey has done an amazing job with Kitten's Joy. He's the prime example of how a turf horse can really find a place in this country. And now there are Kitten's Joys running in Europe, and it's sort of changed the conception, if you like, in terms of having a big influence.

Young: I think most stud farms are getting closer to standing grass stallions than they were in a different time frame. But as far as changing the whole pedigree dynamics, I'm not sure what that would do for it.

Bradley: It depends on the kinds of horses the sale will attract. If those horses go on to be quality horses on the racetrack, that fuels a sale like this. There will have to be successes out of it, and the long-term [outcome] of the sale is going to have to depend on getting good horses out of it in the first three years of the sale. The Fasig-Tipton crew, as a rule, is very good at picking out yearlings and putting them in the right places, and I think if they do their job and the vendors believe in the venue, I think it's got a good chance to succeed.