The Casse Brothers and Their Derby Horse

If a Derby favorite emerged from the pack this past weekend in the form of the GII Risen Star winner, Gary Barber's War of Will (War Front), the race did more than propel a new potential superstar to the front of the pack: it also demonstrated the bond and unique working relationship between Mark and Justin Casse. Lucas Marquardt caught up with the brothers at the Casse Training Center in Ocala to talk War of Will, Derby, and how they think their late father, family patriarch Norm Casse, would feel about their partnership.

LM: Justin, you bought War of Will at the Arqana May Breeze-Up Sale. Were you looking for prospects to bring back here?

Justin: I've been to the yearling sales six or seven years in a row, as well as the December sale, but this was the first time I had gone over to the Breeze-Up Sale. I went over there to pinhook some horses. This horse stood out on paper and physically for me. So it made it an easy call to call Mr. Barber, who is a big fan of the sire. And I only called him about 30 minutes before the horse went in the ring because initially I thought the horse was going to bring more than we would like to spend. But I had heard that he might fall into the range we were looking for.

LM: What about his breeze over there attracted you to him?

Justin: He had a very good, very quick, turn of foot, and he was an excellent mover. He had one of the top five breezes on time in the sale. And when you went to the barn and you looked at him afterwards, he didn't look like the type of horse that would be your typical quick breeze-up horse. He has a lot of scope to him.

LM: Did you think you were buying a turf horse initially, given that pedigree?

Justin: Absolutely. I mean, I think anybody who tells you they're going to France to buy a horse that's going to run on anything other than turf, I don't know if they're being truthful with you. Obviously, we go to Europe looking more for turf horses. Sometimes you'll find an American horse who stands out over there, or shows up over there, with dirt breeding. But no, not in this instance.

Gary's a great sportsman and a very willing participant, and a terrific owner to have. And he doesn't take long to make decisions. So it made it very easy for me.

LM: Mark, what was your first impression of War of Will when you got him in the barn?

Mark: From the beginning, he'd walk out of the stall, and you'd watch him train, and say, “Wow.” And we've been saying, “Wow,” for a long time. And the more he trained the more I liked him. And I told Gary pretty early on, “I think we have something special.”

LM: I was watching the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf last night. He really ran a fantastic race. I mean, he's four or five wide around the first turn. Wide around the backstretch …

Mark: He easily could have won the Breeders' Cup Juvenile Turf. He had a tough post. I think he ran 65 feet farther than the winner, and 90 feet farther than the second horse. And it's a good thing he didn't win the Breeders' Cup, because if he had, I don't know if I'd ever have run him on the dirt. We were anxious to try him on the dirt, and it was the last week at Churchill, and he had trained there and trained well. And so we said, “Well, yeah, let's run him back.” People said, “Oh, well, he ran well in the mud, or in the slop,” but it was pretty dry. I wasn't concerned at all that it was just about the mud. He laid off of it, and it was an extremely tough maiden race. And what gave me so much confidence about him was that he ran ten one-hundredths of a second slower than they ran the Kentucky Jockey Club, which was a good race in itself. It had had the second- and third-place finishers from the Breeders' Cup in it, I believe. And Tyler shut him down the last hundred yards. So it gave me a lot of confidence after that. We went into the LeComte …I mean, I don't usually say a whole lot, but I didn't think that they would beat him.

I've said this many times, good horses can win when everything goes their way. Great horses can win when things don't go their way. Normally when I go into a race, I say, “Well, if things work out, we have a shot to win.” With him I just … I feel like it doesn't really matter. He can overcome adversity, which is a great feeling.

LM: The last couple races he seems to have made his own trips.

Mark: If they want to go slow early, he'll run, he'll be on the lead. If they want him to run really fast, I think he can sit right behind them. So he's the perfect Derby horse because you can get in so much trouble in the Derby if you get too far back. He usually breaks running. He's pretty quick away from there. So I think that that'll help him down the road.

And I think it's amazing in that he has it all. Here's a horse that has this great pedigree. He's beautiful. When you see him, you'll say `wow.' And he's got to appeal to both sides. I think as a sire later on, you know, I think you could take him to Europe and do well. And with what he can do here on the dirt, I think he's just the entire package. He amazes me. I've trained maybe 15 War Fronts. He looks like no other War Front I've ever had. Most of the War Fronts I've trained are a little more compact, and don't have the length. This horse is a lot leggier. We spent a lot of time in the paddock for the Risen Star. They got us over there kind of early, so we walked around for 15 minutes. Most trainers only pay attention to their horse. I was watching as he would walk around and people would look at him. I mean, he is an amazing specimen.

LM: Talk a little bit about your professional relationship.

Mark: I'm so busy with training horses that I can't get to all the sales and do everything. And I feel extremely confident in Justin and in what he buys. So it's a good feeling. And I'd be lying if I didn't think about my dad a lot and think, “I know my dad is up there smiling.” Because I think it would be really important, I know it was important, for us to work together, so I think we're making him happy as well.

Justin: I was thinking about it last night, and Mark may not remember this, but it was six or seven years ago after I'll Have Another won the Kentucky Derby and I said to Mark, “I want to be Dennis O'Neill to your Doug O'Neill. And he goes, “Well, just find me a Derby horse.” It was like, “There you go. Easy.”

Mark: I'm not the easiest. Sometimes, I can be a little hard on him, but I'm sure over the years it's made him what he is.

Justin: He taught me what to look for because we had a pinhooking background. We'd have to shop on a budget, and so we learned what we could live with and what we could afford within our means. And we invested so much of our own money, and still do. And so a lot of what I see in a horse, I know Mark would like. And then to add to that, I started traveling around the world and I started noticing what certain people would look for and what type of horse might suit a certain type of a program. And so I owe a lot to Mark in that regard because he helped me get the foundation that made me who I am as far as a judge of horses.

Mark: What's nice is now, like I said, I don't feel like I have to be there. Justin knows what I like, and he's learned that I'm not going to sugarcoat it. But I think we make a really good team. And I think we're just kind of getting started.

LM: How much of your style of horse, or what you're looking for, is from what your dad liked in horses?

Mark: Actually, really none. I loved my dad dearly. He was a pedigree guy. I'm a little different than the average trainer. I learned pedigrees first. The physique is more trial and error. I tell everybody that I do my own studies. I've been studying for 40 years so I know what's been successful for me and what hasn't. I can pretty well tell you when I look at a pedigree what the horse should look like and what's been successful with that. And that just comes from doing it for a very, very long time. We have to protect our owners. And Justin will hear me say that many, many times. I have lots of owners who will run things by me and I'll say, “No, no, no.” Because it's our job to protect them. Because if we don't do well, if we don't do a good job, they're not going to continue to do it. I worked for Mr. (Harry) Mangurian many years ago, and I had the utmost respect for him. He would always tell me, “It doesn't matter how much money you have, you don't like losing it.” And I've never forgotten that.